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Subject: "Another question for you Administrator!"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Scott
Charter Member
07-31-01, 11:41 PM (GMT)
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"Another question for you Administrator!"
 
   Sorry I've been away for so long; I've been studying intensely for the MCAT, and don't want to clutter my mind with worry about hair loss. Heck, I try to avoid looking in the mirror if I can... it's become really frustrating. But I just had to come back today, and ask you a few questions, if you'd be so kind as to answer them. The following is a copy of a post I have submitted on hairlosstalk.com

--------------------------------------------------
First of all, I want to thank whomever runs this site for providing a forum that allows intelligent discussion. Heck, I'd also like to thank people here for being intelligent, and not allowing things to denigrate into flame wars (at least for the short period I have been observing).

I have a couple of questions for those of you who may know:

1) Aside from the diffuse thinning on top, that has brought me here, I am also a pretty hairy guy. I plan on getting Epilight treatment for my bodily hair (and I have quite a lot of it too). So then, does a dormant or "dead" follicle have reduced 5aR and thus DHT production? In other words, will such a treatment reduce circulating DHT levels (assuming that most DHT isn't enzymatically broken down intracellularly)? I don't know, since I don't know much about how much DHT produced within the follicle circulates, if any at all. Will 5aR activity cease in the incapacitated follicles? Epilight apparently helps tremendously for acne sufferers, although it wasn't originally intended to treat acne. If it does that, then it must somehow inhibit sebaceous gland. On a side note, I find it pretty amazing that I've been a very hairy guy most of my life, but it is only recently (perhaps in the past couple of years) that I noticed increased shedding, and only VERY recently (the past 4-5 months) that I've noticed a VISIBLE change in my hair density. I am 29 BTW. It reaffirms my suspicions (and probably documented fact) that 5aR activity and/or androgen receptor sensistivity and/or nuclear activity increases with age. God knows (judging from my sex drive that I've had my whole life) that I've got enough testosterone for two men! LOL! I'm also pretty sure that environmental factors help trigger AGA, and can enhance the phenotypical(?) expression. I say this, because the only person I know of that has gone bald in my close family, is my uncle. He was bald by 22! So what is going on?!?

2) Do any of yo think that Accutane can have long term effects with hair loss, and help trigger AGA? I was on a pretty high dosage for 7 mo, but that was 3 years ago!

3) I want honest and constructive criticism/praise about Dr. Woods and whether it's possible to extract whole follicles and then reimplant them with 100% succes, as he claims. (I will consider going to this guy if I feel enough confidence to trust he is not a sham, and that his technique is all its cracked up to be)

Also, I would like to know why I can't extract my follicles and use a viral vector to prevent baldness. Why not drastically upregulate the aromatase pathway (as the administrator at clonemyhair.com suggested), or perhaps change expression at the translational level so that DHT binding sites are altered? How about cuffing 5aR by altering expression at the translational level? C'mon man, I may not have all the knowledge to know where to begin... yet, but I am going to damned well try. Give me a damned low Vmax for 5aR, and make it very high for aromatase! Err... wait... then I might develop breasts... scratch that! C'mon guys! We have so much knowledge floating around. Let's take this 5 steps beyond topical applications, and 5aR inhibitors. Those only treat the symptoms. Let's kill the problem. So far, I think viral vectors are our best bet. I'm taking Virology this fall. Is anyone willing to be my sounding board for crazy ideas?

-Scott

ps- I refuse to use the Hanta, Ebola, or West Nile viruses as a vector
--------------------------------------------------

Professor Administrator, obviously we've discussed aspects of the second part of the above post, and unfortunately I haven't had time to get around to studying Wnt proteins and or BMP4. I promise I will, but probably not until after the MCAT. However, I was wondering if you could answer the questions regarding Epilight and circulating DHT and also whether or not 5aR activity is lessened in "dead" follicles. Thank you!

-Scott

ps- You asked what schools I am applying too? Well, I will apply to many schools around the country, and see which ones accept me. I am no genius who will have med-schools begging me to come to their institution, and med-school is hard enough to get into as it is. So I'll just have to see!


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Scott
Charter Member
07-31-01, 11:47 PM (GMT)
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1. "One more thing"
In response to message #0
 
   Administrator, I was curious as to your own background and interest. You certainly seem very knowledgeable and helpful. Are you balding yourself? Do you have a PhD? Are you located in the USA? If this info is somewhere on this site, please forgive me for not being diligent enough to find it. Thanks!

-Scott


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Adminadmin
Charter Member
08-01-01, 00:35 AM (GMT)
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2. "RE: One more thing"
In response to message #1
 
   mail me at admin@clonemyhair.com, so that I'll know your e-mail. Is it ...@hotmail.com

Best.
Admin


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Adminadmin
Charter Member
08-01-01, 10:13 PM (GMT)
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3. "RE: Another question for you Administrator!"
In response to message #0
 
   I seriously doubt, that Epilight will help you to fight AGA. "Baldness in inside the follicle", i.e. you don't need high level of testosterone/DHT to have AGA.
HF of balding are genetically programmed, so that they will respond to androgen transcriptional activation, by production of hair growth inhibitory compound of regulative messages.
Hair follicle it self should be ultimate target for AGA treatment.


Accutane question - no. cause, even pharmacokinetics of it says:
"...Following administration of an 80-mg liquid suspension oral dose, it's concentration in blood declined with a half-life of 90 hours..." I.e. Accutane concentration will be 50% after 90 h, 25% after 180 h...etc.

So, you won't have any significant traits of it in your system after 10-14 days.

Let's don't discuss Dr. Woods in particular. But, truth is, that hair cutting and actual transplantation is done by technicians, not by doctor! therefore, one can't claim 100% accurateness of techs job. In many clinics other problem is, that technicians don't have even nurse degree!!! They basically don't have any basic knowledge about hair anatomy and physiology. Do the following: go there and ask technicians random questions: i.e. what is the length of growth cycle for human scalp HF, what are stem cells of HF, where they are located, what is Henley layer, what is muscle arrector pilli etc. these are basic questions they have to be aware of. Why? Because of the lack of this knowledge one can not even evaluate quality of his own job.


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Scott
Charter Member
08-01-01, 11:36 PM (GMT)
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4. "RE: Another question for you Administrator!"
In response to message #3
 
   Thanks for the response, but I have some commentary and a few other questions!

I was under the impression that although "baldness is inside the follicle", there still had to be a certain concentration of testosterone circulating to initiate transcritptional activation of growth inhibitory compounds. Either that or receptor sensitivity and or 5aR activity must increase with age, right? After all, I am quite sure that I had as much or more T circulating as a teen and in my early 20's... so why was there not any sign of MPB then?

Also, it has been stated on another site (in a study) that 5aR activity from follicles other than that of the scalp (i.e. body hair) significantly contributes to circulating DHT levels. So if DHT is circulating, then does it not connect with androgen receptors of the scalp hair follicles as testosterone does, and have the potential to initiate further MPB?

As for Accutane. If you look on the net, and speak to them personally (as I have done with some of them), you will see that there are many people who suffer from Telogen Effluvium after taking Accutane. We're not talking just a few months after stopping treatment, or during treatment. They can be suffering from TE up to 3 years after treatment. And they all believe (with probable cause) that Accutane had something to do with it. Is it not possible that Accutane in high doses can do this? It is a mutagen, and some people take very high doses for their cystic acne.

And finally, as for the hair transplantions... it is very untrue that all transplant clinics use technicians. Most reputable transplant doctors do the procedures themselves, and the best ones achieve fantastic results. There's one testimonial on the front page of hairlosstalk.com that is representative of an excellent transplant experience. However, as you stated, there are some transplant organizations that DO use technicians, and I wouldn't get a hair transplant done at these places if my life depended on it. Instead, I would go with an independent doctor, or a small group of doctors who have a very proven track record. I would also meet with some former patients. Anyway, back to studying for me!


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Adminadmin
Charter Member
08-02-01, 00:36 AM (GMT)
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5. "RE: Another question for you Administrator!"
In response to message #4
 
   First of all, I'm under the impression that testosterone/DHT = some evil molecule. It is not. It is extremely important for so many life processes, that no one is fully aware of.

AGA - is genetically predetermined. Guys with or without AGA have almost the same androgens level. It is the way androgen signal in proceeded intra-follicular really matters for AGA.

I agree, that if you'll get rid of all body hair, this might somehow change androgens balance. But, I doubt, that it will be something major.
Keep in mind, that organism will react to sudden depletion of androgens by its increase production in other tissues: prostate, seminal vesicles, epididymides, liver etc....
I'm sure, these tissues will restore initial level very quickly.

Therefore, one should concentrate on trying to modify hair response to androgens, rather than trying to disrupt everything.

2. Telogen Effluvium - is something completely different from AGA. actually it is more or less synchronous entering of resting stage by about 30% of scalp HFs.
Telogen Effluvium is actually a very broad term. Give one a high X-ray dosage you can get permanent TE, due to total destruction of HFs.
Postpartum TE is, on the other side pretty normal and totally reversible
Again, TE is not AGA. Seems to me, that you got AGA.

3. HT question: that is why I don't want to discuss Dr. Woods, whom I haven't met personally. If he says, that all stages of Hf procedure are performed by surgeons - than it is great. it gives much more confidence.
I admit, that HF works and works great for many bald guys. But only if they are realistic. Is it your case. you are just 29. if you are expectation to get the same density as when you was 19, than you'll never be satisfied.
If the men is really bald and this affects his whole life - than he'll be happy even to the slight improvements in his look.
Again, HT is OK, but is not equally great solution or everybody.


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Scott
Charter Member
08-02-01, 00:58 AM (GMT)
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6. "RE: Another question for you Administrator!"
In response to message #5
 
   I know TE is a broad term, and not synonymous with AGA. But Accutane is noted to cause TE during and shortly after treatment, That much is admitted by dermatologists and Merck. Both say it will go away shortly after discontinuing Accutane.

As for me confusing TE with AGA: that is not the case. The reason I brought up TE is because people who have gone on Accutane have reported diffuse thinning up to 4 years after discontinuing use. Just to clarify my own hair thinning:

1) Very little recession at the temporal regions.

2) On top of my head (not the vertex), there is diffuse thinning.If I part my hair in the middle, or on the right, the part line is big. My widow's peak (which I've always had) and front hairline is somewhat transparent, in that under bright light, I can see my white scalp. Again... the front hairline has been minimally affected. I really can't tell if the sides or back of my head have been affected since I always keep the hair there short.

So that leaves one or two possible causes that I can see. Either it's TE or female pattern baldness.

Anyway, you are correct about DHT. Likely, we should concentrate on a solution which affects DHT action in the hair follicle, or should engineer follicles that don't respond to DHT.

Any more advice and or lessons are appreciated!

-Scott


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Adminadmin
Charter Member
08-05-01, 10:02 PM (GMT)
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7. "RE: Another question for you Administrator!"
In response to message #6
 
   from what you say, you got regular AGA.

I doubt that there is any connection between your AGA and Accutane.
Anyway, I've not read much about Accutane and hairloss. if you know any article, that have statistical conformation of this...

regards,
admin


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Scott
Charter Member
08-06-01, 11:27 AM (GMT)
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8. "Ahhh... likely you are correct Admin"
In response to message #7
 
   I guess I'm just being hopeful by trying to convince myself and you that it's TE, and not AGA. But believe me when I say that it's occuring in no particular pattern that I can discern. I'm not a "Norwood 2", or anything like that. That's what's so weird.

I personally have not run across any articles that have numbers cited by an independent 3rd party; I've mostly gotten my information concerning TE and Accutane from talking to people personally, and on the internet. Remember, Merck won't admit to something like this (i.e. it can cause a chronic TE state of your hair)... they are making a killing by monopolizing the one drug that is proven to cure acne. I had the worst cystic acne, not only on my face, but on my back. Nothing, and I mean nothing worked except for Accutane. However I do know that now, Merck is putting new warnings out with the packaging stating that Accutane can cause long term TE. So now they do it...

On a different subject, I had a suggestion. I know you're a busy person, but I was wondering if you'd mind putting all of your articles in "headline news", located on the front page, into a PDF file. I do enjoy reading the new postings, and would like to be able to print them out and take them home to study (instead of printing out the whole front page with graphics and all). If you're not able to do this, it's not a big deal at all. Thanks again, and please keep this site going! I love the fact that it's the most technical and thus, "high-level" site I've come across for hairloss biology!

-Scott


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Adminadmin
Charter Member
08-06-01, 03:46 PM (GMT)
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9. "RE: Ahhh... likely you are correct Admin"
In response to message #8
 
   Oooo!
That is what it is all about. So, now they are putting new warnings...

Unfortunately, many pharmaceutical companies do mask real clinical trials results, just to please FDA.
For example, when they do human testing, there is extensive pre- and post-selection going on. I.e., if they feel like, that particular person won't show results they want, they will delete him from their database. As a result, statistics looks better. Therefore, one must be very cautioned and suspicious, even reading their official data.

About PDF file. Hmmmm...you right, I should do this. I'll work something out in couple next days.

Regards,
Admin.


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bc lottery
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08-09-06, 11:38 AM (GMT)
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12. "RE: Ahhh... likely you are correct Admin"
In response to message #9
 
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Joshua
Charter Member
08-06-01, 09:35 PM (GMT)
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10. "I have A question about TE or femail pattern baldness."
In response to message #6
 
   When I was in high school I foolishly took a cycle of steroids. I believe they were estrogen based due to some immediate side effects. I am now 26 years old, and have been experiencing hair loss for about two years. It is very simular to what you had described as TE or femail pattern baldness. Do you think that the steroid use has had a significant effect on my hiar loss? Would taking Estrogen have a perminent effect on my chemical production or my HF makeup?


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Adminadmin
Charter Member
08-07-01, 00:19 AM (GMT)
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11. "RE: I have A question about TE or femail pattern baldness."
In response to message #10
 
   Hi. It's important to know what kind of steroids you took.
Where these anabolic steroids, known as muscle-building. Usually guys play with them.

if so, than they can cause tons of side effects, including for men: "...shrinking of the testicles, reduced sperm count, infertility, baldness, development of breasts, increased risk for prostate cancer..."
Look for full list of side efects at:
http://www.lec.org/DrugSearch/Documents/Steroids.html

Do you refer to "development of breasts" as "some immediate side effects"?

Accutane, on the other hand is related to both retinoic acid and retinol .


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